TS-590

[7S7V]

Follow-up Comparison TS-590S vs K-3 and FTDX-5000   Time owned: 0 to 3 months 

Wrote this for my FCG gang, but of interest to many.

Received the K-3 back from Elecraft with a note that said it exceeded specs.
Since they knew I was doing a comparison reviews, they asked me to turn off the 2nd receiver because there is a 3dB loss when both receivers are active since they share the same front end and the signal is split. They also asked that I set all radios to the same NR/DSP/filter/ etc.

So I did. I completely revamped the shack since it had grown in stages as I added gear and was becoming somewhat of a rat's nest of cables and wires, many without tags so that I was constantly tracing cables to see what when where. Removed everything, designed a layout, and marked every cable. I have pictures of the setup; three rigs in a line with an "ABC" switch to quickly switch from one to other.

Some minutiae:

YAESU FTDX-5000 K-3 Kenwood TS-590S
Knobs 90/8 Concentric 45/2 Conc 47/2 Concentric (Most are dual/multiple function)

Antenna Ports 4/1RX 2/1RX 2/1RX
(Not incl Transverters, etc)

Size/Weight
Yaesu FTDX-5000 18.2x5.3x15.3/ 46.3lbs
Elecraft K-3 11.1x 4.4x11.8/9.5lbs
Kenwood TS-590S 10.63x3.78x11.46/16.3lbs (Width/height/depth ", Lbs)

SW Updates 2 1 0
(Since purchase 8/10)

Cost: $5,600(w/300Hz Roofing) $4,100(2nd RX/Filters) $1,800

See the respective manuals for the details. Many ask about the TX/RX EQ capabilities. Both the Yaesu and the K-3 use parametric EQ, but with different methods. The K-3 uses a more traditional 8 segment band with adjustments of -16 to +16dB in each segment; while the Yaesu uses a nine segment matrix of center frequency, parametric gain, and Q (bandwidth) with -20dB to +10dB in the matrix. There is a completely separate matrix for "Processor On." The Kenwood sounds absolutely great out of the box, but offers seven different preset selections separately for both TX and RX, or you can roll your own with their ARCP-590 software designed for the TS-590S.

Unique features:

Yaesu FTDX-5000: Control your Yaesu rotor from the front panel; sloped AGC setting which preserves the "relative" signal strength of stations; individually programmable CW key ports; built-in voice/cw keyer/RX recorder; bandscope w/ hi fi speakers (D & MP models); DMU-2000 with the FTDX-5000 updated SW gives you finals temp, SWR chart across band, most radio settings, bandscope, etc etc.

Elecraft K-3: Built-in PSK-RTTY-CW decoder; super-fast ATU; phase locked dual diversity receivers (2nd RX option - tks Lu and Joe); built-in voice/CW keyer (option);

Kenwood TS-590S: Excellent ATU. Fast and tunes almost anything. Intuitive front panel with great graphical display of bandwidth/filtering; very good NB and NR; really great audio out of the box


How do they work? Remember, I'm primarily a CW guy so my opinion is somewhat biased.

Spent the first evening sorting through the pile-ups on 40CW, mainly to see how effective they were at digging out the weak signals sandwiched between big signals. And when the DX wasn't working split, that was real work. I did use Joe's recommended settings for the K-3, because like Will, I just can't get used to the high pitched noise hiss. Lu calls it "edgy", but my ears were trained on old tube rigs, and I guess I'm just dragging OOTC ears into this fray. Joe's settings weren't that far away from the ones I used before, but I still find the K-3 tiring to listen to. Rob Sherwood did an excellent analysis of the K-3 and found it superior in almost every aspect, but he did find the 9th order harmonics could be tiring for extended use.
High impedance headphones should significantly reduce this. I tried my Heil Pro Plus, Bose QC3's, my favorite Optimus Titanium 'phones, and various others here in the shack, but just couldn't get used to that "edgy" sound.

I have no lack of ESP signals up here in the high mountains of the "black hole", especially from EU and AF; nothing like those great signals in Florida! Set up on 40CW with a huge pile-up on a weak African, and once again, I am amazed to barely hear the weak signal muddled in the noise level on the K-3 and on the Kenwood, but it's Q5 when switched to the Yaesu FTDX-5000; still weak, but perfectly readable. This was repeated time after time, first on 40CW and then on 80CW. 20M wasn't really open or suitable, so stuck with 40M and 80M. The Kenwood TS-590S was the equal to the K-3 in every test, able to hear the weak CW signal, but not able to copy like the Yaesu. After Elecraft's assurances that my K-3 "exceeded specs", I can only conclude that the FTDX-5000 is much better than I had expected.
And the TS-590S proved to be worthy of the fan-fare preceding its release.
I don't think it's a K-3 "killer", but it is a very serious competitor, especially at its price point.

The two most important things for a CW contester are noise floor and dynamic range. All three have excellent dynamic range, at least in my ABC comparisons in crowded conditions and published specs, but I still found the noise floor of the K-3 too high to my ears, at least compared with the Yaesu and the Kenwood. I'm going to drag out my TS-570SG and TS-2000 for a quick comparison, since comparing these three high tech, quasi-SDR radios to each other will probably be on another plateau from my older rigs. They are all three marvelous radios and represent a quantum leap forward. I wish I had a FLEX5000 to compare. My friend, W4MO, has been trying to get me to buy one for two years now.

Switched to SSB, where close in spacing is not such a big deal as with CW, and there the difference was not so obvious. The Yaesu still did a wonderful job isolating the weak signals, but the difference was not so evident. The Kenwood had that great "broadcast" audio sound that is a Kenwood tradition but could use one more roofing filter (maybe 1., but the K-3 was a very effective SSB radio; very crisp audio and great signal isolation with the filtering system. I can see why it is a favorite with SSB contesters; but I still preferred the Yaesu over the K-3 or the Kenwood; for me it was just more comfortable to use. In on air tests, almost everyone gave all three very high marks for the audio. I had a round-table on 75SSB and they were delighted to compare ABC without my telling them which was which. Some liked the Yaesu because it "sounded bigger", but they were the weaker stations and the Yaesu's slightly higher power was more than likely the difference.

I have been very impressed with this Kenwood TS-590S. With its price point, it is a lot of radio for the money. It has great audio and very pleasant to listen to like the Yaesu. I could probably get used to the K-3, but listening to the other two for extended periods on CW would not be as tiring as I find the K-3 on CW.

Which is the best? Depends on what you want. As Charlie, 'VUD, pointed out, they are more similar than different. The value rig is the Kenwood TS-590S which is an amazing radio for the money. I predict they will sell tons of them! The do-everything, Swiss Army knife K-3 is a great SSB contesting rig that you can tailor to your desires but that may take a while. Lu pointed out that he is finally comfortable with his after almost a year. But my personal choice is the Yaesu FTDX-5000 for all around operation. Almost every feature you could want, tailoring to whatever you wish, and solid feel and build. It was my go-to radio every time conditions and copy got rough. You won't go wrong with any of these .

[S58DX]

Pozdrav kolegama u 9A ,

dakle ima li tko nabavljen TS-590S, te kakva su
iskustva u upotrebi aparata ??
Na e-ham.net ga dižu u zvijezde

U Sloveniji još nisam nikoga čuo ili da je napisao da ga upotrebljava??

kakva je cijena u 9A ? U Široj Evropi od 1640 do 1900,00 

Pozdrav od kenwood ljubitelja,

Nermin S58DX

[9A6JRZ]

U prodaji bi trebao biti oko sredine 12 mjeseca (bar je takva najava), a cijena je 1.590 USD + PDV (U cijeni je uključen: Mikrofon, DC kabel i dodatni konektori)

73 de 9a6jrz

[9A9T]

Pozdrav Kenwoodoljupče,

ima nas i u 9A koji smo također nestrpljivi da čujemo lokalna mišljenja o toj novoj zvjerci 
Bit će, u stvari već i je pravo osvježenje u ponudi za KV bandove...

Ipak mislim da će u EU biti dosta povoljniji nego ovdje 

Možda dođem u S5 po jednoga...

[7S7V]

Sherwood lista, TS-590S jos nije tu, ali komentari jesu:
http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

Re: Love this radio
Posted by: "Rob Sherwood" rob@nc0b.com   nc0b
Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:56 am (PST)


Comparisons between the expensive FTdx-5000D and the reasonably-priced TS-590S.

As you can see below, I ran the Kenwood and Yaesu in this past weekend's CW contest. I also used the radios on SSB in the ARRL 10 meter contest and general rag chewing.

The 3X cost and weight differences are obvious.

Both performed well in the Stew Perry 160 meter contest which was not as crowded as the December ARRL 160 contest, but the band was packed from about 1802 to 1850 kHz. There was no sign of overload on either, which is what one would expect due to the good close-in dynamic range of both.

I used the 50 Hz filter bandwidth to work CE1/K7CA on both rigs between the two contest. The problem was all the stations calling the CE1, and having to be able to hear when the CE1 came back to me since other stations were still calling him while he answering a call. That required the 50 Hz bandwidth. Both rigs worked fine, though the ringing seemed a bit less on the Yaesu. That is a subjective call, but that what it seemed like. On this weekend I put both rigs on the CE1 for about 10 minutes, both on 50 Hz, and went back and forth with the operating position antenna switch to compare. The difference was subtle, but the sound of signals off the peak were less hollow sounding on the Yaesu. The bottom line was I was able to work the CE1 on the first call on both rigs once I got the signal tuned in on the 50 Hz filter.

I ran the attenuator on the 590S so the S meter was not reading on band noise. On the Yaesu I ran it on IPO1, which is has similar total gain as the Kenwood with the attenuator. To give more data, the S meter just starts to move on the 590S with the attenuator at 14 uV and the S meter just starts to move on the Yaesu on IPO1 at 11 uV. Both the values were perfect for me at my QTH out in the country.

I preferred the fact that the display on the Yaesu gave me the bandwidth I had selected all the time, while it goes away on the 590S, just like it goes away on the K3. This is a minor annoyance, but I prefer to know how I have the radio set without having to change it to see the bandwidth. I find that in a contest I try to vary to bandwidth and the IF shift (and the CW pitch) throughout the contest depending on QRM and to keep my ears from developing a notch at one frequency from listening for hours to the same beatnote.

Both rigs were setup for semi-break-in, the 590S driving an Alpha 99 and the 5000D driving an Alpha 89. Due to the limited bandwidth of my antenna on 160 meters, I have to adjust the drive level as I approach the low end and high end of the bottom 50 kHz to keep the reflected power to less than 250 watts. Otherwise the Alphas trip out on an SWR fault. This means I have to push a button, turn a knob and push a button on the 590S and to reach an inconvenient small concentric knob on the 5000D. Having to do three actions on the 590S was more cumbersome than turning the knob on the Yaesu.

The Yaesu had a 600 Hz roofing filter and the Kenwood the standard 500 Hz. Both radios were typically ran at 200 to 300 Hz bandwidth throughout the contest. The only problem I had with either radio was the key clicks / keying sidebands of a few strong stations. No radio can fix that problem, as it is the other stations problem of having poor wave shaping on transmit.

Both radios have transmit distortion problems on SSB under certain circumstances. W6XX has been taking screen shots with his K3 and LP-PAN of my signal of 20 meters on both rigs when I have a 50 dB S/N ratio. The 590S has obvious "shoulders" on the transmit signal that are worse than one would expect. I can supply this picture to anyone who wants to see it. The 5000D can be extremely clean, but only if one is running class A and running NO ALC and NO processing. Once the processor is turned on, and it only works if the ALC is really being driven, the 5000D seriously degrades from fantastic to mediocre. I also have screen shots of the 5000D. K7VO broke into a QSO Sunday to say he had never seen such a clean signal on the air with his K3 and P3 panadapter. That was with the 5000D running in class A with No processing and No ALC. This was with the 5000D driving the Alpha 89, so I guess that also means the pair of 3CX800s are pretty clean, too. Hit the processing and ALC to get Contest / DX pile-up talk power, and the clean Yaesu signal seriously degrades.

The 10 meter contest, where the 590S is a typical up-conversion radio, did not prove much. Signals were not that strong except for Sunday afternoon when there was a fantastic E skip opening to the east. Some signals were 30 to 40 over S9. There were several splattering signals at that time, just like there were on 20 meters during CW WW SSB. No radio can fix the problem of the other guy overdriving his linear or running with mic and processor "knobs maxed out". In general even up-conversion radios are adequate on SSB, since we have to contend with transmitted IMD products of the guy 3 kHz away. Those are generally worse than a radio's dynamic range, since most transceivers are 13.8 V. class B PAs with relatively poor IMD specs.

The main question will be how often a 590S will be stressed on 30 and 17 meters during a DXpedition pile-up like Peter 1.

I have not yet done lab transmit IMD test on the 590S. One ham noticed some phase noise issues with the 590S during the 10 meter contest when on CW. Measurements were made by me on 10 meters to look at that issue, and as a comparison a K3 will be measured this week. This was a case of local signals within line-of-sight causing problems when the offending station was very strong and 5 to 10 kHz away.

Phase noise is often a problem on Field Day, in a multi-transmitter contest station (even SO2R) and when you have close by neighbors. I see the close neighbor problem more often on 160 meters, but obviously this can happen on any band if you can climb up your tower and see other towers, even if a few miles away. That is one of the down sides of synthesized radios.

One more thing. I have to use the Kenwood more on 20 meters. I have been really annoyed by the click, tick and pop problem of the 5000D on SSB. Its AGC is really affected by any transient noise, which tends to push the S meter to S7. This can be electric equipment coming on, like a furnace, turning your rotor and having the brake energize or de-energize, a neighbor's electric fence, or just noises on the band that "pop". Most radios since 2003 have this problem. I and some other hams I know sold their IC-7800 due to this problem. I use my 781 or Pro III since they don't have the problem like the 7800. The 5000D certainly has the problem, while the K3 does not, nor do the Flex radios. So it can be fixed in firmware, if the programer knows how to tell the AGC to ignore an occasional 1 msec "pop". So far Yaesu, Icom and Ten-Tec have not figured this out.

73, Rob, NC0B

[9A2VR]

Evo ga po treći puta da pokušam proći!
Prije svega Sretna Vam Nova godina i svako dobro!

Na sam kraj 2010.g. NC0B se potrudio da nam daruje obnovljenu Receiver Test Data listu na : http://www.sherweng.com/table.html
TS 590 je visoko plasiran iako mi se čini da je mogao i bolje. Zato što ima odličan VFO sa vrlo niskim šumom i ima odlične osobine na 20 Khz razmaku
koje se dosta kvare na 2 Khz razmaku. Ali dobro, obzirom na cijenu u USA, i ako naši u Kenwoodu ne pretjeraju...jako je dobar!
Isto važi i za Eagle od Ten-Teca! Yaesu FTdx5000D je na PRVOM mjestu ali po cijeni je to jedna druga priča.
Duže vremena sam razočaran kako loše stoje IC 7000 i FT2000 i znam po ARRLovim mjerenjima da je i TS 2000 tu negdje ali opet, dobri operatori
sa dobrim antenama i velikim snagama i sa njima dobro rade. U svakom slučaju, ako imate volje i vremena, proučite malo ove podatke pa u
Novoj godini ako ne bude previše recesijska...

73 from Božo,9A2VR

[9A3VV]

...ali opet, dobri operatori sa dobrim antenama i velikim snagama i sa njima dobro rade...

Nisam imao prilike raditi niti na jednom od navedenih uređaja pa se ne bih upuštao u ocjene ali me je zakopkalo ovo velikim snagama. Po mom skromnom uvjerenju dobar će operator i sa malom snagom a dobrom antenom i nekim ne osobito kvalitetnim uređajem čuda uraditi. Samo zato što je dobar operator! Bit ću slobodan citirati jednog velikog pjesnika: Boj ne bije svijetlo oružje već boj bije srce u junaka! Napisao je on i: Kome zakon leži u topuzu (tko ne zna to je buzdovan, Morgenstern kako bi slikovito rekli Nijemci, HI)... Dalje neću da se ne bi netko uvrijedio

Sretna vam nova 2011 svima i što više šuške kako bi mogli obnoviti opremu!

[9A1ZZ]

Bilo bi dobro kad bi se negdje našla komparacija između TS-590 I TS-870S...ja sam s mojim prezadovoljan...
Damire koja je situacija u zemlji ja mislim da može i ovako ...da te malo djelomično citiram..

USE AND ENJOY MORSE CODE OPERATION IF YOU HAVE A RIG  ...IF NOT ENJOY MORSE RUNNER........

Pozdrav svima i SRETNA VAM NOVA 2011.....

[9A2VR]

Važi Damire!
I ja se slažem sa onim stihom i sa Tvojim mišljenjem ali samo dok ne počne WW rat  , ops, mislio sam
CQ WW i tako nešto od jako jakih contesta. Obzirom da je puno ljudi jako "nabrijano" , onda treba i
operator i snaga i antene i razna pomagala kao chat, SMS, cluster, skimmer, SDR prijemnici(ima ih sve više).
Svaka vrsta pomoći je dobro došla ako vodi ka prvom mjestu   ! E sada , koliko je to sve moralno i normalno...?
No , što se tiče TS 590 , složio bih se sa tvrdnjom da nije baš K-3 ubojica ali nije ni loš jer DR od 88 db na
2 Khz razmaku je za većinu ( čak i contest) situacija , prihvaljiva vrijednost. TS 870s je u tom smislu znatno
lošiji i ima DR od 69 db na 2khz. I sad bi netko rekao da TS 870 od 9A1ZZ nevalja. Valja, samo nije dobro
da imate antenu na 50 m visine i nije dobro da nekoliko pravih "snagatora" radi baš jako blizu vaše radne frekvencije  . Sve dok ne "prokuha" prijemnik je dobar!
73 & GL in New Year from Božo,9A2VR

[9A3TA]

Mene zanima da li itko osim mene vidi da je gospon Sherwood složio vrlo specifičnu tabelu...

I da li je slučajno tako...

[9A6R]

Kad su ga nazvali ubojicom K3 više su aludirali na cijenu a manje na karakteristike.Pa u DL-U ga ima za kupiti već za 1600 Eura a K3 je znatno skuplji.On će K3 ubiti cijenom a manje karakteristikama.BTW i one su tu negdje.I sve to za manje novaca.Po karakteristikama ima boljih uređaja od K3 i 590 samo treba izdvojiti barem 4 puta više novaca.Pa sad ko voli....



9A6R

[9A3VV]

...
Svaka vrsta pomoći je dobro došla ako vodi ka prvom mjestu   ! E sada , koliko je to sve moralno i normalno...?
...

Dobro pitanje Božo! Cilj opravdava sredstvo rekao je, ako se ne varam, netko tko je veoma zaslužan za drugi svjetski rat. Njegov je moto, nažalost, prihvatio veliki broj radioamatera-operatora pa na bandu imamo to što imamo Od HAM-SPIRITA nije ostalo ni H

Frenki, slažem se s tobom da treba imati uređaj (znam na što misliš) ali i ovo je uređaj, ako ne najbolji u svojoj klasi onda tu negdje:

http://www.elecraft.com/KX1/KX1.htm

Da ne nabrajam dalje... I moj stari Drake TR-4C je bio uređaj i to kakav! Sve što sam čuo, a čuo sam jako puno jer je imao odličan prijamnik, bez problema sam odradio s njim iako nije svjetlucao raznobojnim ledicama kao božićno drvce, nije imao DSP, roofing filtre i što ti ja znam što sve trpaju u današnje uređaje. Što se pak Kenwoodovog uređaja zbog kojega je ovaj topic otvoren tiče - ja bih ga rado imao. Zašto? Ne zato što je bolji ili slabiji od ovog ili onog uređaja drugih proizvođača, što ima ovakve ili onakve karakteristike koje drugi imaju ili nemaju nego jednostavno zato što sam zadovoljan Kenwoodovim uređajima, i starim TS-530S koji mi je služio jako dugo i dobro dok ga nisu stisle godine i sadašnjim TS-480SAT. Nažalost, nema se šuške... Ako se štogod i skupi - ide za uređaj iz gornjeg linka

I, na kraju, reći ću još samo ovo: svaki je uređaj dobar onoliko koliko je dobar operator koji njime rukuje!

[9A6R]

KX1 je dobar samo mu fali linear


73,9A6R

[9A3VV]

E tu sam te čekao Bez lineara je gušt uraditi DX, bez lineara...

[9A6R]

Je ako uspiješ.A kad ga zoveš a ostaneš bez veze A zoveš ga nekad i danima...Fala ti na tome Damire.
U svakom slučaju tvoj izbor,nemam ništa protiv.
Malo smo off topic,nek nam ne zamjere.


73,9A6R